First book ready-now what?

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neckertb
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First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Sat 15. Oct 2011, 11:03

Hi all

So Ruth finished our first book :)

I'm just wondering whether we should catalogue it now or wait until we have a couple books to put out?
Nadine

Hokuspokus
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Hokuspokus » Sat 15. Oct 2011, 22:41

That's great!

I'd say catalog it now.
The catalog page is almost ready, too.
http://legamus.wordpress.com/?page_id=31&preview=true

neckertb
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Sun 16. Oct 2011, 10:19

Ah, yes, I managed to log in and see the draft.
OK, then, I will wait for the spot-check or do it myself and look at it later today.
Nadine

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sun 16. Oct 2011, 12:13

So this is the time for me / my future automatic system to take over? Normalisation (not needed for Ruth :) ), meta-data, converting down to 64 kbps as we discussed in the other thread?

What is the spot-check?

neckertb
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Sun 16. Oct 2011, 13:23

She added the disclaimer, so it's basically just checking that the right files are uploaded (based on my own experience, it's easy to make mistakes...)
Nadine

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sun 16. Oct 2011, 22:46

OK, you'll tell me whether this is any good or not :)

I was able to normalise a bit by amplifying both parts by 1.4 dB (in Audacity). Then I converted to a 64-kbps ABR (average bit rate) MP3 using LAME, and uploaded to ge.tt.

Here's the result, once with individual files - to listen online at ge.tt or download individually - and once as a ZIP archive. (I suggested to the ge.tt folks that they include a "download as ZIP archive" button when there are several files, to save space by zipping on-the-fly, but at the moment there is no such facility).

http://legamus.eu/link/Khalil_Gibran-The_Prophet/parts
http://legamus.eu/link/Khalil_Gibran-Th ... t/complete

neckertb
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Sun 16. Oct 2011, 23:00

Ohh, thanks Viktor :)
It's just too late for me right now, but remind me tomorrow should I forget (not unlikely the way it's going these days :shock: )
Nadine

RuthieG
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by RuthieG » Wed 19. Oct 2011, 19:15

What does the 64 kbps sound like? I know that Iambik had difficulty with quality at first when they converted 44KHz sample rate files to 64kbps MP3.

Ruth

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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by RuthieG » Thu 20. Oct 2011, 14:17

Never mind, I listened myself. Silly me. :roll:

I hadn't realised that it was to be offered as a 64 mbps download. I would have made a copy of the Audacity file and resampled at 22 KHz, and exported from that as a 64 kbps MP3. I find that this yields far superior quality, really quite hard to distinguish from the 128 kbps version. We found this when doing samples for Iambik.

I have done this, and will upload a 22 KHz, 64 kbps file for comparison. Windows Properties claims that Victor's file is 128 kbps and 44 KHz sample rate, but when played it displays (and sounds like) a 60 kbps MP3. Rather fluffy round the edges.

I will admit here that my computer was misbehaving somewhat when I did this recording, and had some rather nasty hum at increasing frequencies that I didn't manage to remove entirely.

Ruth

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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by RuthieG » Thu 20. Oct 2011, 17:12

I have uploaded this file at http://dl.free.fr/k7n8yNZ6w

Please let me know what you think. I will do both files in this way if you are in agreement. :)

Ruth

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Fri 21. Oct 2011, 00:00

In some of the early threads, we agreed to try to offer the final MP3s with 64kbps. I think the idea was that it would be "good enough" and yet save bandwidth for servers and storage space for downloaders. Yet, recordings can be in a better quality, particularly when a normalisation step has to kick in (and thus the audio needs modification anyway) or when we want different formats in the future (Vorbis). I always keep backups of the original files, so that "final versions" can always be reproduced if necessary.

When I re-encoded your first files, I used LAME in ABR (average bitrate) mode, hoping that, while VBR (variable bitrate) might still give some trouble, virtually any player understands ABR, and that "average 64kbps" would still give better quality than "constant 64kbps".

By now I found a version of mp3gain in my Debian GNU/Linux repository, and looking at that, it seems that my amplification of the files by 1.4 dB does not make much difference at all. I wouldn't need to touch the 64kbps versions at all, I'd just create a stable "legamus.eu/link/" URL.

Dear Ruth, all of this are just attempts how to do it the best way (and at some point, how to automatise it). Compared to your experience, these points are irrelevant. I want all Legamus readers to be entirely happy with the results! While I can hardly hear any difference between 128 and 64kbps (even with music!) - when you do, and when you prefer 96 or 128 kbps, constant or average, the question is settled, and we'll proceed as you deem it best.

neckertb
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Sat 22. Oct 2011, 15:48

So, Ruth, you tell me which files to catalogue and I will.

Viktor, what are you testing?
Nadine

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sat 22. Oct 2011, 16:22

neckertb wrote:Viktor, what are you testing?
A newsfeed that will show us messages to be moderated. Not quite there yet...

RuthieG
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by RuthieG » Sun 30. Oct 2011, 16:08

Viktor, I meant to reply, but then my computer died and I have been struggling to get an old one working well enough to do anything.

I meant to say that I didn't mean to cause any offence about the compressed file - I was just looking for a solution that would offer the best quality in the smallest file size, and it seemed to me that resampling at 22 KHz and exporting at 64 kbps was that solution. Which was all well and good until the other computer died horribly. I am hoping that my repair man may be able to retrieve some stuff. Stupidly, The Prophet Audacity files were one of the things that I hadn't backed up for some reason.

Ruth

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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Hokuspokus » Fri 2. Dec 2011, 19:07

May I make a suggestion?
Let's just take the 128 kbps version and catalog it. In times of YouTube audio only is comparatively small. At this point we don't need to worry about bandwith for our side and most listeners won't either.

We can still go on testing about compression and maybe offer a smaller version at some point (or not). I download LV recordings in 64 kbps only for one reason - there is only one big zip, much easier than picking all chapters separately.

We haven't talked about that yet as far as I remember: I think we should put the files in one zip for the download. Much easier to maintain.

neckertb
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by neckertb » Fri 2. Dec 2011, 19:18

I think HP's suggestion makes sense and the zip file is a good idea too. If we had somenoe to make nice covers I'd make M4b... Actually if soloists could just find a picture that'd be great. Else I'll just use a template.
Nadine

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sat 3. Dec 2011, 00:39

Exactly my opinion ;)

I just re-uploaded Ruth's original 128 kbps files, without any of my "vandalism". A ZIP file and two individual MP3s are available under the old links
http://legamus.eu/link/Khalil_Gibran-Th ... t/complete (89 MB)
http://legamus.eu/link/Khalil_Gibran-The_Prophet/parts (90 MB)

By the way, good news from ge.tt !

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sat 3. Dec 2011, 00:55

Hokuspokus wrote:We haven't talked about that yet as far as I remember: I think we should put the files in one zip for the download. Much easier to maintain.
I suggest we have both: One ZIP file and individual files. Single files make sense because people might just want to "listen in", and some freehosters like ge.tt can play them directly in the browser.

If I had my own download server, I'd put the individual files there, so people can listen directly through the web site, and then a link "download all as ZIP archive". If people click there, the server creates on-the-fly a ZIP archive from the individual files. Upload once, pay storage space for one set of files, and get your ZIP for free :)

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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Hokuspokus » Sat 3. Dec 2011, 08:21

Thank you, Viktor!
Ge.tt is much nicer and easier.
I think we need to establish a cataloging routine. The MC checks the ID tags, file names and volume. I don't understand who does the final upload. Can the MC uploads the files to the final location on ge.tt, or is that something you must do yourself to get the nice legamus link?
The MC prepares the catalog post and Viktor (or the MC?) adds the legamus link?

If we put all our completed files to ge.tt and there are only 2 or 3 GB, that's not much. That would be a reason pro compressing the files and only offer those. I suggest we investigate further when Ruth has her new computer. Her experience will be very valuable in this. But for now we should get the prophet out and published. No chance that we get things 100% perfect with the first releases. We will learn while we go on.

With limited storage individual files and zip don't sound so good. Personally I'd prefer zip, but I'm quite old-fashioned, no iTunes and such. Web 2.0 people might need some assistance to listen to the files in a zip.
m4b files are only useful if one has a player that supports it.
With this in mind, individual mp3 files seem to be the best solution. We can add other formates when we have found a better storage solution.

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Viktor
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Re: First book ready-now what?

Post by Viktor » Sat 3. Dec 2011, 11:41

You can do the upload, too! The nice Legamus link is provided by the Link Resolver, that's the one piece of the meta tools that is already working. I sent you the link and the access codes. In some months, I hope it's the Finisher tool which will check volume and tags before one of us does the upload.

Don't worry about ge.tt. We could get an account for each admin; but on the other hand, it's always good if the storage admin (me!) can re-post files without asking for other people's passwords. And I don't want to "abuse" the generosity of ge.tt. For the moment, 3 GB is a lot, even when we put individual files and ZIPs! I have a feeling that once we fill that space up, I'll have a "little" server to play around with. (The "little" server offer that I consider has a hard disk of one terabyte... ;)

I favor individual files in addition to the ZIP for people who don't know the listener. When I see a recording from you, I know I should immediately download the whole thing! But newcomers may want to just test and listen to some minutes, particularly when it's a recording of several hours.

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