SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -vik

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catrose
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by catrose » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 01:15

Hi Ramona, (and Martin)

I didn't realise you had already offered to PL. You can do that, I'm fine :) I'll keep by eyes on this for when it's finished though! :D

Pob lwc! Good luck!
Cat

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 01:18

Martin: I adjusted the MW with a little note for the introduction.
we can keep it this way, until the end of the project. If no valid source found until then, I will remove the introduction section and copy the poem into chapter 1. So we won't loose anything and that way it is no further effort for you, Martin.

Cat: if you are native English speaker Martin might prefere you instead of me as his PL. I say: it is his choice, what do you say?

Regards!
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mreyto
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by mreyto » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 06:33

Hi everyone,

Cat, thank you for the clarifications, and also for creating those very handy chapter files. Since they're sourced from the Gutenberg text, as I thought, I'll keep on using them.

Ramona, I saw the note you put in the MW, and I think you're right, this pro tem solution to the Introduction problem is all we need to do for the moment. Question though: why is it important to find the source text online, when all we need to know is that the author died more than 70 years ago? You're in a life+70 country; the publication server is in life+70 country; I'm in a life+50 country; SFS has been dead for 73 years. Doesn't that mean his work is PD for all of us regardless of the medium it's read from?

I see your point about having the PL done by a native English speaker, but judging by your written English I'd say you have the proficiency, and since you did volunteer first, and are clearly enthusiastic, I'll throw the ball back to you: if you're confident in your ability, as I think you are, then I say let's do this. :)

I'm curious what technical issues you encountered in the files I uploaded, because I have one or two nagging doubts of my own; but I guess you'll provide details about that as part of your PL feedback.

I'll get started on Chapter 2 in the next day or two.

Martin

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 10:14

Thanks for the confidence in my English abilities to handle the PL! I wanted to read or listen to this book for a while now. Its a highly recommended classic, and I always wondered why. Wanted to make up my own mind ... that is. Of course I could just read or text-to-speech it, but to listen to a human voice with just the right intonations instead of a robot is much more handy and fun!

Copyrights are such a complicated matter ...
I totally agree to your opinion, that we should be on the safe side with the intro even ... since Cat stated, it is part of the self owned hardcopy from 1937 ...
But think of the possibility of a publisher/editor who found in 1970 an old letter of Fritzgerald concerning the book content. And such publisher decides to use it in his edition for some intro, with placing the poem differently, or with some minor changes of the wording. And suddenly he has at least parts of the copyrights just for the minor changes!

Here lives a whole phalanx of attorneys from sending mass-accusement-mails to little sinners, just because they visited the wrong websites! No kidding! They just lurk in the dark for jumping on such mistakes ... and getting their benefits out of it!

If Cat's hardcopy is the only proof of the rightness of our use of it, then that might not be enough if it comes to a hard conflict ...
Viktor is our server god *grin*, - from what I know, the server is located in France. If Viktor thinks, it would be best to leave the intro until a better source is found, than I do respect that! It is his head on the guillotine if it comes to any trouble ...

Technical problems: well, there is sometimes a series of clicks on your recording, that usually is not too disturbing, but sometimes it multiplies and is suddenly annoying. Don't worry, it happens not too often. I point out the timecodes asap.
regards
Ramona
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Viktor
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by Viktor » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 12:52

What an amount of discussion in the last two days! :)

For the PL, I think it's no big deal, and no big danger of annoying someone. The only situation in which work would be lost, is if sections have already been PL'ed and nobody told us. Otherwise, a former PLer has still all the right to listen to the story, as has anyone else!

It's with orphaning sections of assigned readers that we have to be very careful...

I politely refuse to put my head on any guillotine! The server is indeed in France. As long as we're positively sure that the text really does come from Fitzgerald and no one else, we are safe. Even posthumous texts (example of the found letter) should be alright (though I'm no authority on this). Cat verified the intro with an old copy, so we should be fine. Of course, if we do find an additional online source, that's even better.

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 13:32

Ah, so that's an okay from Viktor for the intro!
Fine with me! 8-)
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Viktor
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by Viktor » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 21:25

I just browsed through old PMs to see why I ever was not happy with the intro. We did not find a good online version, and I guess I wasn't aware that Cat verified the intro with her own hardcopy.

mreyto
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by mreyto » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 23:05

Hi Viktor,

Google did turn up an online copy of the Introduction at http://fitzgerald.narod.ru/gatsby/gg-intro.html. The "fitzgerald.narod.ru" subdomain looks like a fairly comprehensive Russian FSF site, with a comprehensive collection of his writing including the full text of Gatsby in English and Russian. It's worth a look if you haven't seen it.

I haven't done a word-for-word comparison of the online text of the Introduction there to the one Cat pulled from her copy of the novel, but at a glance (it's not very long) they do look identical. So it's my sense too that we're on solid ground with this.

Martin

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 23:20

I haven't checked via mp3gain or checker, but from what I heard and saw so far everything was okay on the technical side.

Introduction was PL okay! And yes, the russian version is one to one identical wording ... besides the poem ... but that is part of the gutenberg text!

chapter 1:
8:09 --- a series of clicks, but this one is the most annoying one. ... ions of land. *click* Twenty miles 
8:57 --- the -- well less fashionable ... some clicks again
11:10 ---some sniffing: .... I don't know. *sniff* They had spent
14:45 ---. .. the wine-colored rug, ... clicking
22:32 ---. ..they knew *click* that presently dinner would...
27:27 ---. ..dly, *click* and then ceased altogether
38:14 --- ...leaving a loud bright night ... you say cloud

The silence at the end of the recording was only 5 sec long, it should be 10 sec, since the recording is larger than 30 min!

I don't know the source of such clickings, maybe a metal watch on your wrist, that clicks, as soon as you move your hands ... don't know. And usually nobody would notice it in real life, but mics are some tricky little things and pick that sound up - multiplied.

All the things I pointed out are only minor errors or just little annoying noises. ... besides the silence at the end of the file!
You might keep them or decide not to do anything against them.
See them more as suggestions!

Have a nice day!
Ramona
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catrose
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by catrose » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 23:37

Viktor wrote:I just browsed through old PMs to see why I ever was not happy with the intro. We did not find a good online version, and I guess I wasn't aware that Cat verified the intro with her own hardcopy.
Yes, sorry, I forgot to mention. I found it in a charity shop just after we'd finished PMing and I'd become to busy :oops:
Cat

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by Viktor » Sun 12. Jan 2014, 18:38

No problem, Cat, I just like to understand why I change my opinion ;)

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by mreyto » Sun 12. Jan 2014, 18:55

Chapter 1 is ready for spot PL:
Link to file: http://upload.legamus.eu/simple/files/2 ... gerald.mp3
Length: 38196991 bytes (36.427 MB) — Duration: 2387 seconds (0:39:47) — Bitrate: 128 kbps

Chapter 2 is ready for PL:
Link to file: http://upload.legamus.eu/simple/files/2 ... gerald.mp3
Length: 27373520 bytes (26.105 MB) — Duration: 1710 seconds (0:28:30) — Bitrate: 128 kbps

Re Chapter 1:

I've edited out all the clicks you noted, and several more in addition. Thanks for spotting those; on my headset they're so faint they almost aren't there. Please let me know if they're still a problem. (What causes them is a bit of a mystery; I have some idea, but it needs more thought.)

I'm not sure what went wrong with the trailing silence on your end, because Audacity showed its length as 10 seconds here, and it still does... not sure what to do about that.

The cloud -> loud issue is fixed.

I've updated the MW for both files, hopefully correctly.

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Sun 12. Jan 2014, 22:07

Downloading...
ah, the silence at the end ... sometimes it is displayed wrong on my player, :cry: ....sorry for that trouble. If the silence exists in Audacity, then everything is fine!
regards!
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Mon 13. Jan 2014, 12:21

Chap 1 spot PL okay.

Chapter 2:
7:50 ... as Tom helped her to the platform in New York. .. . ...the her is almost not understandable or even cut
14:30 ...her and had made the dim *click* enlargement of Mrs. 
21:35 ...who'd been after me for years. I ... - you say two years
23:22 ... that garage for eleven years. *noise* ...
25:00 ... pressed against my arm-- *click*

I don't check on "word perfect", but if your wording changes the meaning, I do mention it. is that okay?
Regards
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mreyto
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by mreyto » Mon 13. Jan 2014, 19:53

Yup, that's fine. It's what the other PLers I've worked with do as well.

Chapter 2:
7:50 ... as Tom helped her to the platform in New York. .. . ...the her is almost not understandable or even cut
-- fixed
21:35 ...who'd been after me for years. I ... - you say two years
-- fixed
23:22 ... that garage for eleven years. *noise* ...
-- fixed

These two are a problem:
14:30 ...her and had made the dim *click* enlargement of Mrs.
25:00 ... pressed against my arm-- *click*

The problem is that I can't hear the clicks, and when I load the mp3 into Audacity, I can't see them either. So I don't know what to do. I'll wait for your reply before I re-upload.

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Mon 13. Jan 2014, 22:55

Ah, they were hard to see on the waveform, I agree, just a little hidden peak at a very close view.
I removed them at the two sentences ... you might want to copy/paste them into their rightous places of the chapter file.

http://upload.legamus.eu/simple/files/H ... tences.mp3

Or just leave them, your decision!
About: not being able to hear them ... you might try a speaker system instead of your headphone, and see if that makes any difference ... or a different headset. Headphones, speaker, microphones, and even the human ear, each one works on individual frequencies.The clicks are a very special, somewhat high frequency, I guess .. haven't checked the details yet. But I saw a very handy youtube clip, that showed in all details, how to find and remove such hidden peaks ... I will look into finding the URL again and then will send the link ...
But that is no help, if you still can't hear them ... :(

If not, well, I can just leave pointing them out, or I remove them myself and send you the cleaned sentences ...(like I just did)... whatever you want! Just tell me. 8-)
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Mon 13. Jan 2014, 23:12

Just found the link.
https://forum.librivox.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33439
the very first video clip," finding and removing the clicks with audacity."

but still, it is of no use, if you can't hear them ...
"They are all dead, they just don't know it yet."
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mreyto
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by mreyto » Tue 14. Jan 2014, 16:25

Ok, this has been an adventure. ;) First of all, here's the link to the updated Chapter 2:

http://ge.tt/9UcFtAE1/v/0?c

I used ge.tt because the other uploader was too darn slow today for some reason. Checker says the duration is 28:26:95, the file size is 26.0 Mb, and the volume is 89.3 dB.

Hopefully all is fixed now, but let me know if it isn't. I decided to try to isolate and fix the clicks myself, because I think I should know how to work around this problem.

I checked the samples in the file you posted. I could see exactly where you made changes, but unfortunately I could hear no difference between your edited and my unedited versions.

I watched the youtube video by Phil Chenevert, and had no trouble following it as it's exactly what I do with stuff I can hear. But... I couldn't hear most of the clicks he was editing out either. :(

I listened to those two places you identified on two headsets, two ear buds, my computer speakers, and the TV, and I couldn't hear the clicks on any of them. So, unless you and Phil use higher-quality headphones or speakers than I currently have access to, the limitation is in my ears. I think the problem is more likely to be volume than frequency. Speaker sensitivity at very low volume is a measure of its quality (and it's also a measure of ear quality, alas).

That you and Phil can pick one out a click in the middle of a spoken word is (to me) a remarkable skill. I'm certainly not going to deprive myself of the benefit of it by asking you not to point these things out any more. I'm sure many listeners will appreciate the resulting improvement in quality.

After some thought, I came up with this solution. You could PL the files in Audacity, and whenever you hear a click, stop, zoom in until the track time is displayed in milliseconds (three decimal places), and note the precise time of the click in the reply you send to me. If I go there at the same zoom level, I should be able to see it even if I can't hear it. Does that work for you?

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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Tue 14. Jan 2014, 19:18

Unfortunatelly I don't use Audacity for PLing, it only runs very instable on my Linux-System, crashes down after a while.
I listen to the files on my tablet, thats Android. And for cutting I use also an android cutting tool.
I don't know, if the tool timecodes the same way as Audacity does. If there are just minor differences, then your workaround wouldn't work, since you can't hear the clicks ...
We will give it a try though.
On the other hand, I am very certain, that each and every PL or MC here or at LV will always do the cutting out for you! especially if you mention, that it is not your fault, that you can't hear the clicks.
And besides: they are not THAT bad, the clicks I mean. Don't think about quitting recording, just because of such minor technical problems ...(which are very common, or otherwise there wouldn't be such an instruction video clip)!!! :D
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Re: SOLO [English] The Great Gatsby By F. Scott Fitzgerald -

Post by crowwings » Tue 14. Jan 2014, 19:28

unless you and Phil use higher-quality headphones or speakers than I curren...
Nope, very low standards actually, though I can't speak for Phil. But I use different devices, to check all frequency bandwidths ... if possible. Since a recording sounds very different on different phones and speakers ... but you tried that already.
Then unfortunatelly there might be a problem with your biological hardware ... I mean your ears :(
Not your fault. Hearing ability changes by age, by permanent background noise, by accidents, by loud jobs and so on ...
As I said, you will always find help in the forums, don't hesitate to take it, ... if we can't find an functional workaround!
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